Hi Li, it’s interesting you see the line blurring in between audience and creator. When you talk to artists, they tell you that they need their fans but that to preserve their creative process, they need to keep them at distance. Fans and creators are like separate magnets that repel each other, I have the impression that the closer fans want to get to the artist, the more the artist tries to maintain a creative distance. By definition fans are not creators and when they are, they stop being fans to start becoming artists themselves.
I think real fans have another role to play in web3, one that helps creators break free from traditional middlemen and central platforms. They can help them fund their creative journey and become part of their own economy (as opposed to subscriptions). Creators can now activate their community and start sharing their future success with them.
I think this is generally the right analysis on the dynamics of fans and creators currently, but it's important to emphasize that who we even identify as a "creator" is direct a result of platforms that have birthed them - and those platforms that have shaped who we think of as "creators" have created a distinction and separation of roles between creator & fan. That changes when creators & fans become more platform-less and exist in less of a hierarchical manner in terms of interaction model.
I think you right. Although I have the impression that Li clearly indicated here what fans are meant. I would add that Li's fan category are fans-creators based on existing art. You talk about audiences with no creative aspirations. I think both models are legitimate in their respective cases.
I definitely think the line is blurring. I’m currently writing a utopian novel, so are some of my newsletter subscribers. Together we are dreaming up better futures and using that shared knowledgebase to write them. Who knows, in the end we might end up with an entire collective of utopian books that all came from the same community, with print copies going out to our shared subscriber base!
Love the shorter pieces, missed this in Twitter so thanks for putting it here. I love this fan-as-creator development. Question..
What do you think about Netflix suing the Bridgerton Musical folks? I talked about this in my newsletter two weeks ago (text below). Could this put a freeze on fan-created derivations?
Bridgerton Suit Could Change Fandom: From Star Trek fan games to real-life Quidditch and cosplay, reinventing and inserting yourself into your favorite worlds is part of the fabric of fandom. Even Mr. Beast’s Squid Games and Willy Wonka remakes fall into this category of remixing favorite IP. But Netflix could change all that with its recent suit focused on the Bridgerton musical. It’s an incredibly misguided attempt to punish super fans, and shows just how desperate and misguided the streamer has become. Creator Economy leader Gil Kruger has a solution though – big media needs to legitimize “Official Fan Works” and embrace fandom, not destroy it. I hope it happens, but I doubt it will.
Yes - traditional creators & fan derivatives have had a fraught relationship historically - not just in terms of monetization of derivatives, but in terms of the act of just creating alternate plot lines and "detracting" from the original (which is a belief that I agree is misguided).
That's why I believe that the model that I describe here is first going to be embraced by web3-native creators who see a token-based path to value accrual from fan-created works (i.e. their own tokens becoming more valuable). Take for instance Tally's upcoming novel about Jenkins the Valet being sanctioned/supported by BAYC, likely because it accrues value back to BAYC NFTs by elevating the popularity of the BAYC character universe. I think the success of these efforts is what ultimately will get traditional media to embrace fan works and legitimize them.
Hi Jim, could you link to your newsletter? I’d love to read your take on the Bridgerton musical thing. This could have fascinating repercussions for fandoms!
First you were talking about the passion economy, then the Creator Economy, then the ownership economy, now Web3. I guess what I'm wondering is how does competition among all of these things in the end make for a better meritocracy of monetization for Creators? So much fluff, just waiting for some substance.
Yes, and that’s why the future is cc0!
Love this!! Especially the right use of treasury! Would love to see more examples of this done right.
Check this https://uncutfm.substack.com/p/creator-what-types-of-nfts-should
Li - your informative articles are an easy read, flowing from start to finish.
I would love to hear some advice for web3 early stage founders, accelerators vs angels, etc. - John
Thank you!
Exciting topic, the shorter format doesn't affect the quality!
Appreciate it!
Hi Li, it’s interesting you see the line blurring in between audience and creator. When you talk to artists, they tell you that they need their fans but that to preserve their creative process, they need to keep them at distance. Fans and creators are like separate magnets that repel each other, I have the impression that the closer fans want to get to the artist, the more the artist tries to maintain a creative distance. By definition fans are not creators and when they are, they stop being fans to start becoming artists themselves.
I think real fans have another role to play in web3, one that helps creators break free from traditional middlemen and central platforms. They can help them fund their creative journey and become part of their own economy (as opposed to subscriptions). Creators can now activate their community and start sharing their future success with them.
That's what we help creators do with Uncut and I've done it with my podcast with some success. Read more here https://uncutfm.substack.com/p/creator-what-types-of-nfts-should
Curious about your thoughts.
I think this is generally the right analysis on the dynamics of fans and creators currently, but it's important to emphasize that who we even identify as a "creator" is direct a result of platforms that have birthed them - and those platforms that have shaped who we think of as "creators" have created a distinction and separation of roles between creator & fan. That changes when creators & fans become more platform-less and exist in less of a hierarchical manner in terms of interaction model.
I think you right. Although I have the impression that Li clearly indicated here what fans are meant. I would add that Li's fan category are fans-creators based on existing art. You talk about audiences with no creative aspirations. I think both models are legitimate in their respective cases.
Regards
Love this and super optimistic about this. Hoping to see more web3 products that help users monetise their attention, data, networks and passions!
Hi Li! Great topic!
I really love to hear more about some examples in music industry :)
All the best from Poland!
I definitely think the line is blurring. I’m currently writing a utopian novel, so are some of my newsletter subscribers. Together we are dreaming up better futures and using that shared knowledgebase to write them. Who knows, in the end we might end up with an entire collective of utopian books that all came from the same community, with print copies going out to our shared subscriber base!
Oh, also I wrote about how this might influence the publishing industry here if you’re interested: https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/books/a40654712/crypto-books-future/
Love the shorter pieces, missed this in Twitter so thanks for putting it here. I love this fan-as-creator development. Question..
What do you think about Netflix suing the Bridgerton Musical folks? I talked about this in my newsletter two weeks ago (text below). Could this put a freeze on fan-created derivations?
Bridgerton Suit Could Change Fandom: From Star Trek fan games to real-life Quidditch and cosplay, reinventing and inserting yourself into your favorite worlds is part of the fabric of fandom. Even Mr. Beast’s Squid Games and Willy Wonka remakes fall into this category of remixing favorite IP. But Netflix could change all that with its recent suit focused on the Bridgerton musical. It’s an incredibly misguided attempt to punish super fans, and shows just how desperate and misguided the streamer has become. Creator Economy leader Gil Kruger has a solution though – big media needs to legitimize “Official Fan Works” and embrace fandom, not destroy it. I hope it happens, but I doubt it will.
Hi Jim! Thanks for the kind words :)
Yes - traditional creators & fan derivatives have had a fraught relationship historically - not just in terms of monetization of derivatives, but in terms of the act of just creating alternate plot lines and "detracting" from the original (which is a belief that I agree is misguided).
That's why I believe that the model that I describe here is first going to be embraced by web3-native creators who see a token-based path to value accrual from fan-created works (i.e. their own tokens becoming more valuable). Take for instance Tally's upcoming novel about Jenkins the Valet being sanctioned/supported by BAYC, likely because it accrues value back to BAYC NFTs by elevating the popularity of the BAYC character universe. I think the success of these efforts is what ultimately will get traditional media to embrace fan works and legitimize them.
Hi Jim, could you link to your newsletter? I’d love to read your take on the Bridgerton musical thing. This could have fascinating repercussions for fandoms!
Absolutely! I am honored that you want to, and consider this a blanket "do it anytime" permission! Hope you are well.
Could you send me the link? It isn’t in your bio!
here ya go: http://louderback.com/2022/surprising-new-teen-research-shows-youtube-tiktok-dominate-in-us-twitter-and-facebook-in-steep-decline-22-emerging-technologies-you-must-know-and-is-netflix-about-to-kill-fandom/
THANKS LI!
Fan creation will be niche. If everyone has an input it can all end up as mashup and mess.
First you were talking about the passion economy, then the Creator Economy, then the ownership economy, now Web3. I guess what I'm wondering is how does competition among all of these things in the end make for a better meritocracy of monetization for Creators? So much fluff, just waiting for some substance.
I mean even VC is about making money right?